Softude AI

Will AI Take Away Our Jobs?

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that’s what we hear coming in from IT companies across Bengaluru and the rest of the country 25 is when AI agents

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clock in Big question here is can AI really take over jobs these agents aren’t flawless Some of them are in the

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development stage They have their own car crash wars [Music]

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Hey Hi Madul Uh how you how you be doing first of all sir thank you so much for

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taking out time and being here So how you been doing how’s life treating you uh thanks for inviting me D Uh life’s

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good All uh all fun and uh entertainments happening Uh how’s life

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at you life’s been very great with me also So Nadul uh instead of me uh giving

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out your introduction let’s do things differently Why don’t you tell your own story what

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you are doing how you get there how’s been the journey actually and yes

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audience would love to hear straight away from you Sure Uh so I’ll give you a quick brief of what I do Uh I work as

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chief AI officer at top view uh my job is mainly helping clients and my

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internal D leverage AI and uh get the most efficient version that we can using

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the advanced in artificial intelligence So I’ve been uh in I have experience of

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roughly eight and a half years I have experience of roughly eight and a half years Uh I I serve as advisor to one of

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AI one of AI’s largest GitHub repositories I have been invited speaker

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at University of Oxford Tata Motors Google DES NASCOM and others I have I

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also do write uh and have been read by 150,000 plus times I’ve mentored close

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to 200 IIT Bombay and Karapur graduates and especially in terms of AI interview

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preparation and uh we’ve been a little active on government of India’s AI web

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portal and at one point they did they did recognize me as one of top contributors in the space So that’s a

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very quick brief of what I do uh I graduated from NIT Mega in 2016 uh and

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then did work as software consultant for two years and I got lot of hands-on on

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IoT there and was parallely working with ML and eventually that’s when I found

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that okay this space might be extremely interesting for me and then eventually switched uh to

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ML uh before Chad GPD lot of work that we were doing was on hardcore machine

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learning where you take a lot of sensor datas predict if the vehicle is going to fail or not or what the electric say the

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consumption would be post GPD I think AI became the main street and then the

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stories in news and everywhere was quite inspiring nul whatever you are doing whatever you have done basically so now

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there is lot of AI AI AI nu Now think of me as a newbie a layman I

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barely have any knowledge about the AI I don’t even know the difference between the AI and the Wi-Fi let’s say And a lot

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of the audience also don’t know this thing So Nadul what exactly is AI

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according to you okay Uh so I’ll take this I’ll just take a step back and give

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you an explanation of what AI is uh initially or in software uh what used to

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happen was we would give a set of rules and then an output would come So

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let’s say uh you have a you have a robot and the bot is supposed to go and it’s

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not supposed to go and touch a hot surface because if it touches there’s a short circuit Let’s assume a

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hypothetical scenario right so in uh traditionally past decades this is what

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the software was about where we inspect what should be done and that was being done by the software So we were

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providing the logic in AI this role is reversed What happens is we leave that

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complication to the networks or to the system to understand So in our example

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we would leave the bot okay go explore all the surfaces in this loop and based on its exploration it would come up to

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the fact that okay touching this surface is causing some short short circuit in my interface So essentially uh earlier

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what was happening was you are providing logics to the system and it was deriving some results Now we provide the inputs

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and the results and let the system arrive at what the logics are So something that uh we observe but we

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don’t understand why it’s happening is that we don’t understand why it is happening or the system is too complex

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is AI it’s the understanding of mapping what is happening with what was the

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input quite interesting and you laid out in very simple words Nadul uh so Madul

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one thing about the AI so most of the use case I would tell you so nowadays

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there are so many wannabe entrepreneurs You see in India now everyone want to

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you know start their own business or scale their own business The whole economy is revolving around the

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businesses businesses starting something new basically of their own and now because of the AI uh things seem to be

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much easier So earlier building a building up a website or building up an applications were way tedious way

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complex that could require a lot of time and also a lot of funding So do you

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think uh this gap has been filled by the AI now things has become much easier for

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the new entrepreneurs as well as the existing entrepreneurs to you know start something new or the scale the existing

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ones So how do you see this thing yes uh so I I would break this into two uh

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subpart the first is AI is definitely increasing our efficiency so previously

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what was possible let’s say a website development that was possible in 5 days leveraging AI we should be able to do

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that in matter of hours so that is what AI is enabling all of us to do be it

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market research be it coding be it understanding some complex phenomena AI is doing all of this it’s helping us

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with efficiency improvement at an extremely good scale and uh I would I

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would go on to say that this is 20 to 80% of efficiency improvement but then there’s also second

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segment which AI is enabling which is making the businesses 10x and uh this is where this is a space

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where new entrepreneurs or business owners are now actually looking at how can they leverage their uh current

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business or their current understanding or a new idea marry it with AI and make the 10x shift and this is not the 80%

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improvement or reducing my work by 20% This is entirely new segment where AI

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becomes a primary workforce rather than a human work I agree with most of the things you’ve said Now AI is doing a lot

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of things we never imagined we would do like you know building a website at just

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a couple of hours You see now now I have seen many models you know they are

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building applications through just a few text prompts So I would just you know write a few texts and I want a

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e-commerce website to sell my these XY Z products and you could just build a

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application in just couple of minutes this things he never imagined this would take a lot of time as we spoke right so

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now do you think uh the software developers and also the porters uh who

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are working in the industry would they be replaced in a s like soon time because because of the rise of AI only

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the top you know one or two% uh of the people of the from the industry would be

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able to survive how do you see see these things okay very interesting question uh

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and I have a slightly different overview as opposed to what you see in newspapers

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Uh one is of course there’s no denial of the fact that a developer who’s not

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really leveraging AI is is on a very high risk of being replaced That’s

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that’s my personal take Having said that how I see about this industry is uh for past couple of

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decades what happened was there were larger software and because the cost of creation of the software was so high uh

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it was difficult for every company to create their own software and everybody was leveraging a larger software Now

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because the cost of creation has gone incrementally lower I believe every

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company is going to have their own personalized software which cater to

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just upper crust or just soft instead of us leveraging one umbrella which caters

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to upper crust also soft also google So I my personal belief is that software

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per person uh if there’s a unit that will go higher uh and hence we will need

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more software developers But having said that uh I also believe that the amount of work

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done by each software developer will also multiply over the couple of months

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or couple of years if it has not already be So if I was writing say 1,000 lines

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of code per day this would eventually go to 10,000 lines of code per day without

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me spending 10x the amount of time I spend just leveraging AI But I also

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believe that the amount of software I leverage will also go incrementally high So this will be a very uh demand supply

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very interesting demand supply game uh but I believe that all software developers that get uh exposed to AI

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will will have a sufficiently higher chances of surviving or creating newer

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value addition society right so there is this adaptability basically so you know when

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internet came in the computers came in those who are able to adapt the system

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was the ones who survived so yes I think here also So they will be in the game of

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adaptability Those who adapt the AI and take the leverage of it will be able to survive and grow definitely Uh so one

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more thing uh so India is a hub of it basically information technology there

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are lot of engineers there are lot of you know students like bright students

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bright young minds uh who is into this speed So recently uh we saw deepseek

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coming out from China There are multiple models chat GPT Google MIM9 from US

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coming in and there are very much and just naming a few that is coming from US

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Europe or I say China but uh something revolutionary uh we haven’t seen coming

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out from India despite the pool of this talented youngsters why why I’m not able

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to understand why India is lagging behind in this AI revolution

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um Right Yeah In fact uh last month I was in conference with uh few few of the

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key decision makers and uh few of the thought leaders in this space and uh our

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conversation was around this that there are there are two ways to look at this one is let’s say be deep be it GPT

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series be it plot series or Gemini all of these models why why is China able to

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create a model and India is not able to uh this one bigger challenge is the capital intensive nature of this

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application to train a decent model this is a potential millions of dollars of

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investment which uh openai has been doing for quite some time in India we

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have not seen that space yet u having said that uh this one uh famous celebrity entrepreneur who has go on

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gone on to Twitter and asked that okay I am ready to fund creation of a new large language model so that’s one piece

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second is as Indians uh I think we are very adaptive and in fact Indians are

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relatively on the better side of leveraging this AI we not creating newer

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models but on the leveraging AI side we’re doing a lot of work so in terms of Indian youth uh I think we would be

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sooner or later we would be that population who has understood how to leverage these models fastest and

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develop applications on top of it So uh yes model creation should also happen in

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in India and which will eventually happen because the kind of language dynamics we have in the country nobody

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else has So an external uh force would never be able to create an application

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that suffices our need without actually using our uh youth But at the same time our it’s not

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uh completely hopeless situation Our youth or our engineers are also being

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rammed up to understand this technology and leverage them to deliver a other product value

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I agree and I can you know relate this thing So in most of the things most of the sectors India might not be the first

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mover but uh sooner you know Indians are you know very good at grasping or very

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good at adapting the things So so yes I think this is going going to be same in

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the game of AI So so now one more thing that I wanted to

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understand So about the economy of India So if you see Indian economy is being a

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service-driven economy We have shifted to a service-driven economy wherein most

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of our revenues is coming from outsourcing of it So most of the uh US

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and Europe companies they outsource their uh basically daily tasks and all

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those things to Indian companies because they found it uh relatively uh cheaper and efficient also So now because of

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this AI uh the rise of AI now that AI can do and automate a lot of things Do

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you think uh AI will become sooner a option or alternate to India for these

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US and Europe companies how do you see these things uh right Yes Uh very very interesting

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insight actually group Uh it’s it’s a bit difficult question to answer in

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terms of u evaluating if you should actually give out the truth or not Uh

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because it might come as a very harsh wakeup call But uh I’ll try I’ll stay

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true to the nature of my work So I’ll give you the truth honest answer uh is in lot of services that we provide be uh

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call center services be bo and customer ticket services AI is going to uh change the

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landscape and this landscape change would be extremely drastic in nature So

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uh and I can give you an example of a client we work with a team of 40 odd folks uh setting the job was to make

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phone calls and get some feedback about the services that they have already delivered This job a 40 member team uh

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was replaced by AI agents that do the exactly same job They would make an uh

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voice call They would get the feedback and a human agent would not be able to

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make 10,000 calls today My my air does that It can take the feedback It can log

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It can do sentimental analysis It will perform end to end process While for

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human it’s difficult job They have to take a call They have to be on the call for let’s say three three and a half

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minutes They lock the entries They have to learn English to make proper ticketing system or make proper entries

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into my system So this entire cycle was replaced by agents Uh having said that

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uh the disclaimer is here that those 40 odd folks who were not unemployed they were shifted to other departments where

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they add a lot more value Um and this is not just one case that you see uh we we do see a lot of these cases where uh

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jobs that do not require lot of human intelligence involved are are being

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questioned or are being made lot more efficient with AI

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Right And uh so that’s one sorry why yes

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yes so that’s one piece where we’re talking about customer service agents and others u regarding other IT services

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that we’ll leverage uh I think uh yes we might see a shortterm disruption in the market

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because uh so potentially let’s say if India was creating a lack websites per

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day Now lot of these might not be needed because everybody now knows how to create a website But uh in longer span

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the newer ideas will be gone So things that were not possible 2 years back are

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now possible now So newer tangents of uh softwares will come into picture which

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will eventually need some workforce to uh get this job done Initially maybe lot

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of US and European folks would be able to suffice the need but once the volume becomes higher uh this should come back

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to India right so even earlier also we used to

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get a lot of you know calls from these agencies but now everything is getting

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replaced by AI so we get calls from AIS right uh so yes I agree a lot of things

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are shaping up and in short term there may be a disruption and this industry which may cause a lot of people to lose

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their jobs for a shorter period of time I agree eventually the things will get

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settled down but uh so as you said this is a wakeup call for this industry and

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not only for this industry I think AI will dis will cause disruption in many other industries So I wanted to

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understand so there are many multiple sectors now that you are working in this industry so you have a better

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understanding of that So uh which sectors so now in in even in the

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healthcare sector I see a lot of you know new things new inventions coming in

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So which sectors you think will get most disrupt disrupted many people will lose

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their jobs and do and on the other side I think uh AI will also create new jobs

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So there will be a need of new people as well So there are many sectors where there will be a creation of new jobs So

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how you you just uh tell me like which on the one part which sectors will lose most of the jobs and getting most

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disrupted and on the other uh part which you’ll get benefited from this So

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yes sure uh so I’ll start with sectors I think or I as of now see lot of traction

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in is uh one is healthcare for sure uh what has happened in healthcare is lot

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uh not many transformative changes have come into healthcare sector for past couple of years uh as opposed to lot of

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other industries that were that were being transformed every other year So for example it it has to keep changing

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at a very rapid pace and if you look at the pace of healthcare uh it was not

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exactly very uh far So that is one space where I see a lot of things changing uh

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and in fact a lot of projects that we are doing uh are changing the way healthcare is being perceived uh be it

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diagnostic where the reliance on doctor is extremely high or be it

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post care uh where because the number of medical professionals are limited the

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amount of care a patient should have got was uh was lesser than what they should

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get So AI would enable us to give every

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patient the amount of time they should have gotten by reducing uh be it

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documentation jobs for the doctors or be it looking at the patient history identifying what is the current scenario

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and then evaluating If an AI agent can do that for you the p uh the doctor saves say 15 minutes and doctor can

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spend 15 more minutes with the patient to understand what they are feeling about Uh and of course we also see a lot

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of transformative changes where we see uh jobs that can be made extremely

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simple in healthcare where be documentational job be clinician diagnostic uh we or be predictive

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analysis just giving suggestions to the doctor instead of making decisions as of

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now Um another field where I see and uh my personal opinion is all of the fields

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which were thriving because the knowledge was centric Uh let’s let’s

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take an example of a lawyer A lawyer who has read thousands of cases and multiple

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books This lawyer is now replaceable via AI because the information retrieval has

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become extremely easy Now what is different uh or what stands as a

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deciding factor is their experience their information uh their information

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about how to tweak the system how to interact with the system but knowledge retrieval uh that piece is no longer the

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most uh more piece for that job so that’s another uh legal segment is where I see

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a lot of change going to happen healthcare is one legal is one Uh I also see finance I also see insurance or and

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all of the industries that were typically paper and knowledge based will

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see lot of transformation Uh I would not go on to say that they will see lots of jobs but uh I think the way they are

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working today and the way they will be working 3 years from now would be drastically

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And on the flip side where do you see like new jobs will be created there will be new opportunities

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Um right so on this side I think one example is

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uh and I am I’m just thinking about if I should give this example but uh if you

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look at statistics one of the most uh one of the most promising product that came out of this chat GPT was AI

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girlfriend where and the but if you look at it from the underlying uh phenomena

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point of view what’s happening is AI is making onetoone connection extremely

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easy It might be we crave human to human connection but what’s happening is that

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people are actually uh using apps like AI girlfriend or boyfriend interacting

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with them to get this uh onetoone homey feeling uh and essentially what we are

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or where I’m coming to is I see a lot of increase in personalized services that

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will grow significantly up so any form of services where you can which you were

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until now catering to a segment Now if you cater to an individual that would go up I also see uh defense as a sector

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where we’ll see a lot of newer things coming into picture Now if you look at uh Russia

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Ukraine we or any other recent combat incidences we’ll

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see AI being leveraged or technology being leveraged in a way which was never

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been imagined before So be it you uh leveraging drone to identify where should they drop the artilleries or

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identify which are the places where the terrorists are hiding or where the

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opponent’s soldiers are hiding A lot of these things would change for defense is one personalized services are one is

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where I believe lot of changes happen like I agree there’s AI in

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alternate things a lot of people are using AIS to to get rid of their loneliness I talked to this on the later

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part Uh first uh you spoke about a lot of knowledge jobs and operations jobs

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getting replaced lot of paper documents and all those things So here comes a

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reliability part So you know a lot of your legal documentation let’s say your

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knowledge you are asking so you mentioned about the the legal sector right so you need some sort of

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information uh but instead of you know going to your lawyer or someone you ask the chat GPD if I have done this you

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tell me what will be the implications or etc But is it even a reliable because mo

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like there are many cases uh where you know this orders speak false pause like

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give you a pause information that do very confidently that this is the truth you should believe but that is not it So

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this is uh misleading many people So do you think this is even reliable uh at

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least for now if not now do you think in future that AI will be 100% reliable

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that you can you know just trust on the AIS so how do you see this

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right uh so AI making this falsified information or confidently speaking

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madeup information is what we call hallucination in in technical do so uh

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what’s uh what’s going to happen or as of now what I believe is that all of you

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can’t make AI liable for anything So let’s say Chad GPD gives you a response

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for a medical diagnosis or it gives you a legal documentation or it makes let’s

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say as a CA uh instead of CA you you go to Chat GP ask it to create some amendments or some draft it does that

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but you can’t hold AI liable for that So as of now uh how I see this is all of

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this goes through a supervision of a human individual and this is what we

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call human in the loop uh is basically leveraging these technologies passing

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them via human because someone has to be uh liable for

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the decision that has been made and it can’t be charged for now So uh the

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liability will be on the person who has signed it and they would be the person

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who’s uh responsible for leveraging AI Having said that it’s their duty to make

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sure whatever they are informing is correct in nature U now coming to the

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second part of your question is do I see AI being perfect at one point of time

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it’s a little technical uh problem to understand because this what we call AI

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is a network of billions of nodes and there’s lot of randomness to this So do

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I see models being non-h hallucinating at certain point of time uh reduced hallucination yes we see from

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GBD 3.5 to current 03’s version the hallucination had reduced drastically

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but do I see this going zero in near future no And I may be wrong

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Um but there are other ways we currently leverage AI to reduce the hallucination

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uh just to give you an example let’s say you uh we create a legal draft from the

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AI agent or chat gi this draft now when created I can have an a new newer AI

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agent let’s say claude anthropics cloud or Google’s gemini and ask it to just

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dissect this piece and make sure that everything it is writing is correct so uh instead of relying on one model we

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use ensemble or collection of models to make sure that one is generating and

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other one is criticizing it Right Right This is interesting

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basically So yes uh and on the now uh the later thing the second thing that

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you mentioned about the you know AI girl trick or this thing basically now there

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are a lot of people you have you must have gone through a lot of studies that there you know more than 50% who are

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facing this loneliness thing they are they feel lonely and just to get a company now there is there is something

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called AI now on the Instagram as well what they have seen this AI agents multiple characters has building uh and

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people just talk to them So nowadays I see uh people talking more to this AI

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girlfriends than their actual bites basically So there is more information

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to this AI agents uh AI models about you what you do what you eat what you do

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where where you are going basically So everything they know about you so there’s this privacy thing So the this

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privacy is now no more left because this models knows everything and you don’t

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know what is going to happen in future how it will react AI models what what it will do so is it like this is it might

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be a threat basically this is what I am assuming what how do you thread

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um right in fact uh privacy in AI is one of those segments which has which is

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currently under lot of research And uh there’s no perfect answer to this

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uh as of now at least uh there are two open-ended questions that we see in AI One is e ethics and the other one is

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privacy But uh regarding privacy what I can say is uh now let’s take instead of a personal

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example where I am using an app to enact as or mimic as a real friend Instead of

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that let’s take an example where I am taking the AI and making a lot of

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business decisions on top of it Now given I’m exposing this business data this is the question I get to uh I have

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to answer every other day to every potential partner that we interact with is how safe is my data and

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uh with with the current providers that we have uh lot of things you can ensure

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that my data will not be used for training But this again comes uh there are only I

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guess there only a certain percentage of the population who’s informed enough to fill these

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settings otherwise almost everyone is using GPD without uh privacy mode

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enabled So that data is being used to train the models in general and it’s

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only that because so much of interaction is happening with these models the models are becoming better their

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understanding is becoming better of uh the population in

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general but privacy yes it remains a bigger concern and uh I think the way to mitigate is by educating people on how

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to turn off these features how to turn on this case like just to you know I will get an idea

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So like as you said uh there are many people they don’t turn off their settings of privacy and there is a lot

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of information being passed through these AI models and AI models train themselves through these kind of

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information So there is a every day there is a there is a information that is flooding to this model If you if you

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name big AI models there are multiple like like you know millions and billions

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of users who are using these models on everyday basis uh and a lot of information going to that So how bad uh

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this can go basically you know in terms of everything you say AI models training

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themselves through all these datas how bad a situation can go because I see a lot of threat to this thing because if

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we cannot uh you know take a control of these AI models which we obviously don’t have so how bad it can go and how what

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what amount of threat it can give to humans

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um right and in In fact uh even if we were not so there’s one that we that

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interact with let’s say charg this information being used to train the model um that’s one piece u and it’s not

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as of now it’s not being extremely personalized so let’s say what droo interacts with GPT is the same

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information goes into the same stream where madul interacts with GPD and the same information is being used to let’s

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say potentially train a model but those are not two different models That’s one different that’s one model that is

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learning all of this But uh if I was to take a very pessimistic scenario and

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analyze what’s happening uh as we initiated our conversation AI understands things that we don’t uh and

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the capability of it to uh find

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underlying patterns that are not very evident on the surfaces can be leveraged

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in uh lot of ways that you and I potentially can’t talk about Let’s just

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take this to other extreme where we give arms to this AI agent or weapons to this

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AI agent and let and let’s assume that this with all of the information it has

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with the entirety of web being understood by it with uh millions of

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conversations being used to train this model and if somehow AI gets free access

34:49

to do whatever it want it potentially actually will uh create lot of chaos and even it

34:57

doesn’t have the feeling it might just be trying to optimize for a certain objective and there might be other

35:04

chaoses that can come into the system and this is where lot of uh western

35:10

countries are spending time on to understand where should we restrict AI u

35:16

should weaponized AI be allowed should AI decision making be allowed especially

35:22

in terms of let’s say hiring person firing person or making financial decision So uh lot of research is

35:28

happening on this front uh and pessimistic scenario Yeah this can be very uh science fictional movie where

35:34

everything gets operated by AI Having said that we humans are extremely smart

35:39

very good at putting in guard rates So let’s see who comes out ahead be putting

35:44

heart rates or letting air run in right because at the certain limit you

35:51

will have to you know put in put a restriction on that I don’t know how we

35:56

would do this but yes because right now AI is just into our mobile phones and

36:02

you know laptops and everything but I’m you know sooner there will be an AI robot uh in my house you know doing all

36:09

the things which I say you know grasping all the things about me my family and

36:15

everything So this can go worst if we don’t put a restriction of this I completely agree to this Uh or but last

36:24

thing I wanted to understand and this is uh something very serious which I think so AI is advancing at you know insane

36:32

speed uh but as we uh speak initially right so there are there is a lot of

36:37

capital which is you know there to train AI models and also there is a lot of uh

36:43

energy which we require to train these AI models right uh so now that we are

36:49

getting you know dependent overly dependent on AI models so sooner as we spoke there are multiple sectors which

36:56

so there are multiple jobs which will be replaced by these AI models and companies now sooner the economy

37:03

companies will also become dependent on AI to do the lot of stuffs So so as we

37:09

grow as we uh as we go further this dependence will keep on rising but uh

37:16

this will have that implication on this uh environmental side because you know

37:22

right now also there is lot of energy which this AI models is consuming and now at this scale how much energy that

37:29

they will be requiring right so what do you think because once we go in there is

37:34

no U-turn I’m assuming So right Yeah So yes

37:41

No no I I completely agree with your point uh that the energy energy consumption uh because of AI is is going

37:48

to go exponentially higher as we keep leveraging them Um and in fact uh this

37:54

is going to become a national concern sooner or later given the amount of

38:00

energy we consume for this AI models How do we how do we derive so much of energy

38:05

how do we come up with how do we get so much of energy that’s first piece and second is the ecological impact of uh

38:13

this energy consumption uh so yeah that’s that is then u this is how I

38:19

think the current problem is that we are ending up spending a lot of creating

38:24

major foot global footprint in terms of uh leveraging AI by wasting water or be

38:31

carbon emission this is happening but I think the hope here is that uh sooner or

38:37

later we’ll get lot more efficient ways to create energy or generate energy

38:42

because AI is going nowhere Uh so the other way is to how do we identify places where we can generate lot of

38:48

energy from Uh so now all of the giants will have to think in terms of how do we

38:55

generate own energy uh so infrastructure will become one of the challenges uh for

39:01

AI and uh apart from energy I think this is a very well-known problem about GPUs

39:07

that everybody needs this graphical processing units to train their AI models but hardware becomes a limitation

39:15

here because the number of CPUs that are available in the market and I foresee that similar to GPUs electricity will

39:23

also be a similar problem where how do you get so much of energy to train the models how do to get so much of energy

39:28

to you keep using those more

39:34

like so this AI game uh if we don’t know where we are heading towards but

39:39

obviously we are going somewhere so sooner we will get to know where we are going to ditch so all right mad it was

39:47

very lovely interacting with you I personally got a lot of insights to my questions which I definitely don’t

39:54

wanted to ask to b this So yes it was a quite an insightful session Nadu thank

40:00

you for joining in thank you for kicking off your time So yes thanks for inviting me Doo It was

40:07

fun session It was nice to interact with you and especially your questions coming

40:13

from all across the spectrum to identify where we can see the impact how how do

40:18

we leverage this what should be protected at this It was a refreshing conversation Thanks Bobby

 

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